Customers Great Radiant Ceiling Questions:
Eric in Durango, Colorado was looking for a solution to heat his new shop addition and found Premier Energy USA on the internet and decided to contact them about a few questions and concerns he had before proceeding any further. Eric’s questions were great, and his concerns about Radiant Ceiling Heating are very common and understandable. Most people are raised in a forced-air environment and heating from above almost sounds counterproductive. However, like the sun itself a ThermaRay Radiant Ceiling Heating System is not only effective, but also comfortable, healthy and efficient.
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 1:09 PM
From: Eric
To: donm@premierenergyusa.com
Subject: Premier Energy USA Website Project Inquiry
I am adding a ~220 sqft shop to the side of my residential detached garage. The purpose is for a small workshop for motorcycles and snowmobiles. I am interested in the Thermaray in ceiling radiant heat system to heat the shop. The shop is about 12ft wide with a sloped ceiling (3:12 pitch). I’d like to hear how you think this Thermaray system would work in this situation. I don’t want any heater taking up wall space, so ceiling/radiant makes the most sense to me. I’ve read all of Thermaray’s literature.
The one question that is never addressed is how is it justified to put the Thermaray panels behind the sheetrock? Sheetrock is an insulator. Yes, when warmed up, I understand how the sheetrock will radiate the heat into the room. But even with 12″ of fiberglass insulation between the joists, it seems that a lot of heat would be lost in an upward direction. Can you explain how this Thermaray “in-ceiling” system could be more efficient than electric radiant panels installed below the sheetrock? Thanks for any help you can offer. I’m ready to order if I can be convinced that I wouldn’t simply be losing a lot of the heat produced straight up through the roof.
Eric in Durango, CO
Premier Energy’s Response and Follow Up Emails:
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 2:04 PM
From: donm@premierenergyusa.com
To: Eric
Subject: Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
Hi Eric,
Thank you for your interest and inquiry. Your application is one of our most common installations. Although sheetrock does have insulation properties or an R-Value if you will, it is a very low R-Value and the radiant rays easily pass through the sheetrock. Two layers of 5/8” sheetrock is common, and we also install our heating panels above ½” – ¾” wood ceilings and below ¾” wood subfloors and those have an even higher R-values. If insulated properly, you will lose no heat through the roof.
With one of our ceiling installs, you could take a thermal imager into the attic on the coldest day of winter and not see any heat radiating through the insulation. The insulation directs the heat into the space. I can provide hundreds of references that have the ceiling system installed and some of them with over 40 years of use and no issues or maintenance.
If it is new construction, we can also install below the concrete with our Thermal Mass Floor Heating System.
I hope that helps and Thank You again for your interest, great questions and due diligence,
Don
Additional Information:
Radiant Ceiling (Above Ceiling) Information:
Due to the fact that most of us were raised in a forced air or convection environment, the Radiant Ceiling Heating truly is my favorite way to heat because it blows people’s minds Most people say “Why would you put heat in the ceiling if hot air rises”. It’s true that hot air rises, but radiant heat like the sun travels in straight lines until it reaches something that could absorb that heat like the floor, walls, furniture, etc. and most importantly people.
A good example is stepping from the shade to the sun on a cool day or taking a rock and putting it in direct sunlight. The rock will absorb the radiant rays and in turn warm the air and other objects or people. The radiant ceiling heaters will also warm the floor and create a thermal mass when the floor and all the other objects in the room absorb those radiant rays. The ceiling system is a simple installation that doesn’t impact your construction process very much at all. It can be installed above Steel, Sheetrock, OSB, Wood, etc.
Please also visit our “Product Videos and Blog” sections of our website Electric Radiant Heating Videos (premierenergyusa.com) to see installation and other videos related to Radiant Ceiling Heating Systems.
Features & Benefits:
- Superior Comfort
- Healthier Environment
- Easy Installation
- No maintenance
- Quiet
- No moving part
- Energy Efficient – Typically 50%+ less to operate vs. forced air & convection systems.
- Qualifies for LEED Points.
- 45+ Year stellar track record with no failed systems.
Floor Joist Heating (Below Subfloor) – Not in the wear surface, doesn’t raise floor height, installs under existing floors, more heat per square foot. Can be used as primary or comfort heat. USA – Floor Joist Heating
ProControl – Variable control options ranging from stand-alone individual space control to web enabled multi circuit with staging and HVAC interface. All with feature rich transparency for new construction, remodel, and retro fit projects. PC – Controls Options
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 5:07 PM
From: Eric
To: donm@premierenergyusa.com
Subject: RE: Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
Thank you, Don, for the quick and informative answers. The slab has already been poured, so I will need to go with the ceiling system.
I’m ready to move forward with getting a quote. Do I do that through you?
Added information: the interior space is 15 X 12 feet. So only 180 sq ft, vs the 220 sq ft I mentioned before. The ceiling joists are on 24 inch centers. The shop is framed in, but electrical has yet to be run. I have 120 or 240 volt at my disposal.
Our house is at 7000 feet elevation. And for instance, last night got down to -4 Fahrenheit. Although below zero is rare. The space will be insulated with max standard insulation for 2 X 12” joists and 2 X 6” studs. There are two normal size windows and an 8 foot garage door in the space. Most of the time the man door to the main garage will be open, so heat will be shared with the main garage (gas infrared heater). But I will want a separate thermostat for the new shop.
Please let me know if you need more information, or if I need to contact someone else for a quote.
Thanks Again,
Eric in Durango, CO
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 10:53 AM
From: donm@premierenergyusa.com
To: Eric
Subject: Proposal #16740 (Eric Wilson) Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
Hi Eric,
Attached is your proposal along with a rough layout. USA – Eric (Shop – 15 x 12) – RC Layout I only say rough because there may be some obstructions that will interfere with our layout. You will just need to verify that the model number (18” Wide x 5’ Long) chosen will fit in the spaces you have available as shown in the layout.
I also wanted to ask if your garage door is an insulated garage door ?
Thank You,
Don
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 5:22 PM
From: Eric
To: donm@premierenergyusa.com
Subject: RE: Proposal #16740 (Eric) Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
Thanks Don,
Yes, the garage door will be insulated. I’m a little surprised we need 1,920 watts. I have no reason to think this isn’t accurate. Just some other calcs I’ve made myself make me think I’d only need 1,400 to 1,500 watts. Your higher wattage number is probably based on the -4f outdoor temperature I mentioned, or an uninsulated garage door, or the higher ceiling in the shop. But like I said, those below zero temps are kinda rare. Our normal winter lows are ~15 deg F.
The only obstructions we will have are the lighting in the ceiling, the garage door opener and tracks, and a ceiling outlet. But all of those are attached to a joist and shouldn’t interfere with the heat panels. Is it OK to have an LED shop light mounted under a heat panel, or should the light be run along the joists so they don’t cross under a heat panel.
I trust your advice on total panel wattage way more than mine. So I’ll rely on your suggestion. But if there is a realistic reason to lower the wattage, let me know. But the bottom line is I’m not trying to skimp, I want the panels to heat the room in the best way.
I’ll have more time to digest this after work tonight.
Eric in Durango, CO
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 9:19 AM
From: donm@premierenergyusa.com
To: Eric
Subject: RE: Proposal #16740 (Eric) Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
Hi Eric,
Our rule of thumb is typically 6-8 Watts per square foot on a normal room in a home, so your calculations are pretty stellar. It’s harder to heat a small space than a large space and this is a very small footprint with 3 cold walls. I never like to rely on heat from another source supplementing the space, so I took that out of the equation for a worst-case scenario. The garage door even if it is insulated was a big factor as well because most insulated garage doors still have a low R-Value. All those factors and your comments pushed me to err on the side of caution.
If this was my personal project, this is what I would install. However, Since I feel we’re on the same page, if you’d like to go a little lower watts per square foot and take out a panel or two, I will be happy to oblige.
The LED lights don’t affect the heating system, but the heating system may shorten the life of the transformer or the light if it mounted directly to the sheetrock below a heating panel. If it’s not mounted directly to the ceiling and there is a little space, that is fine. Aesthetics is always important, so we can adjust to accommodate any design you like.
Thank You,
Don
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 9:33 AM
From: Eric
To: donm@premierenergyusa.com
Subject: RE: Proposal #16740 (Eric Wilson) Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
Hey, thank you Don, I like the way you think. I haven’t had time to give this my full attention yet, but I’ll get back to you shortly after I think about my lighting options.
Eric in Durango, CO
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 2:41 PM
From: Eric
To: donm@premierenergyusa.com
Subject: RE: Proposal #16740 (Eric Wilson) Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
Don,
Sorry for the delay. I would like to move forward with the quote you sent and get the order moving. So put the wheels in motion, unless you see something that needs to be changed based on the next paragraph.
The panels will work great with the lights. Also in the ceiling I will have a garage door opener, a couple of electrical outlets (one having a reel/retractable extension cord, and an eye-bolt with a little extra support around the 2 X 12 joist. The hook or eye-bolt will only need to support lifting the back of a snowmobile, so I’m not building it to support lifting an engine out of a truck or anything. I think all of this will work just fine with the panels, but if anything catches you eye, let me know.
Otherwise, let me know what you need from me to get this moving forward.
Thanks for your time,
Eric in Durango, CO
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2024 11:03 AM
From: donm@premierenergyusa.com
To: Eric
Subject: RE: Proposal #16740 (Eric) Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
Hi Eric,
I will send you the paperwork to get things moving your way. I don’t see any problems with anything you added to the mix. Also, just a thought. Lift Master makes a garage door opener without a center track. Maybe you’ve seen them, but they are pretty cool and simple. See attached picture.
Not that you still don’t have the room, but thought I’d mention it. My son has one and loves it. Mostly because it is attached to the WiFi or something like that with other bells and whistles that I didn’t know a garage door needed to do. I just like the no center track part.
Thank you for your order. We Truly Appreciate It!
Don
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 6:57 PM
From: Eric
To: donm@premierenergyusa.com
Subject: RE: Proposal #16740 (Eric Wilson) Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
I looked into that garage door you mentioned, pretty neat. I’m getting a price vs the one I already have preordered.
But that got me thinking about storage. On the side of the shop with the high ceiling, I wanted to put some shelves for storage. What kind of clearance do I need from the ceiling for the stored items? Same question applies if I use the extra space for storage which was saved if I don’t put in an overhead garage door opener. Would putting shorter panels in on the high side of the shop help by not beaming down heat on top of the storage shelf. I was going to build them about standard counter depth or a little less.
Eric in Durango, CO
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 7:29 PM
From: donm@premierenergyusa.com
To: Eric
Subject: RE: Proposal #16740 (Eric Wilson) Radiant Ceiling Heating System by Premier Energy USA
The surface of the sheetrock will get to about 105-110 Degrees, which is way less heat than an old, recessed can light. Also, you will be in from the inside of the wall over a foot so there won’t be any issues with storage close to the ceiling. Very common and the same with cabinets in a kitchen. The heat is just not that intense. It a warm comfortable radiant temperature. 6″ – 12″ of clearance is plenty with your layout.
Great Questions,
Don
